ABC News is reporting that the Justice Department is reporting that they have reached an agreement for the sites to return the US players money to them.

There has been no mention of Absolute or UltimateBet other than for the Justice Department to say that they were welcome to come to the same agreement.

I can't stand to watch the ABC news report it is full of so many inaccuracies and misstatements.

United States Attorney
Southern District of New York
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE APRIL 20, 2011
CONTACT: U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
ELLEN DAVIS, CARLY SULLIVAN,
JERIKA RICHARDSON, EDELI RIVERA
PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICE
(212) 637-2600
UNITED STATES ENTERS DOMAIN-NAME USE AGREEMENTS
WITH TWO ONLINE POKER COMPANIES
As Part of Agreements, Use of Domain Names Pokerstars.com and
Fulltiltpoker.com Will Be Restored to Facilitate Return of U.S.
Player Funds
PREET BHARARA, the United States Attorney for the
Southern District of New York, announced today that the United
States entered into domain-name use agreements with PokerStars
and Full Tilt Poker, two of three online poker companies named as
defendants in an April 15 civil money laundering and forfeiture
Complaint (the "Civil Complaint", alleging bank fraud, wire
fraud, money laundering, and illegal gambling offenses. The
Complaint, a related Indictment, and a related Restraining Order
issued against multiple bank accounts utilized by the companies
and their payment processors do not prohibit the companies from
refunding players’ money. Nevertheless, this agreement will
facilitate the return of money so that players can register their
refund requests directly with Pokerstars and Full Tilt Poker.
Manhattan U.S. Attorney PREET BHARARA said: "On April
15th, this Office and the FBI took specific legal action against
11 individuals who allegedly engaged not merely in the operation
of illegal gambling businesses, but in massive wire fraud, bank
fraud, and money laundering, despite repeated warnings and clear
notice that their conduct was illegal in the United States. No
individual player accounts were ever frozen or restrained, and
each implicated poker company has at all times been free to
reimburse any player's deposited funds. In fact, this Office
expects the companies to return the money that U.S. players
entrusted to them, and we will work with the poker companies to
facilitate the return of funds to players, as today’s agreements
with PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker demonstrate."
Under the terms of the agreements with PokerStars and
Full Tilt Poker, the companies agreed that they would not allow
for, facilitate, or provide the ability for players located in
the United States to engage in playing online poker for "real
money" or any other thing of value. The agreements allow for
PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker to use the pokerstars.com and
fulltiltpoker.com domain names to facilitate the withdrawal of
U.S. players’ funds held in account with the companies. The
deposit of funds by U.S. players is expressly prohibited. In
addition, the agreements do not prohibit, and, in fact, expressly
allow for, PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker to provide for, and
facilitate, players outside of the United States to engage in
playing online poker for real money. The agreements also require
the appointment of an independent Monitor to verify PokerStars’
and Full Tilt Poker’s compliance with the agreements. The
Government stands to enter the same agreement with Absolute Poker
if it so chooses.
An Indictment was unsealed in Manhattan federal court
on April 15, 2011 charging eleven defendants, including the
founders of the three largest Internet poker companies doing
business in the United States - PokerStars, Full Tilt Poker, and
Absolute Poker (the "Poker Companies" - with conspiracy to
commit bank and wire fraud, money laundering and illegal gambling
offenses. The United States also filed a Civil Complaint against
the Poker Companies, their assets, and the assets of several
payment processors for the Poker Companies. In addition, a
restraining order was issued against multiple bank accounts
utilized by the Poker Companies and their payment processors.
The Government did not restrain any players’ accounts. Five
Internet domain names used by the Poker Companies pokerstars.com; fulltiltpoker.com; absolutepoker.com;
ultimatebet.com; and ub.com - were also seized. As alleged in
the Indictment and Civil Complaint, the Poker Companies
collectively obtained approximately $3 billion in proceeds as a
result of their illegal activities.
Assistant U. S. Attorneys SHARON COHEN LEVIN, MICHAEL
LOCKARD and JASON COWLEY are in charge of the civil money
laundering and forfeiture actions, and Assistant U.S. Attorneys
ARLO DEVLIN-BROWN and NICOLE FRIEDLANDER are in charge of the
criminal case.
11-101 ###
-2

FT still not releasing funds-when they do, maybe I will see you all on Felt Stars-already have the t-shirt,lol.

I want to see "PREET BHARARA"'s birth certificate. I think he wasn't born in this country and therefore can't issue any indictments or statements for the DOJ :-)

I love the DOJ's statement:
"No individual player accounts were ever frozen or restrained, and
each implicated poker company has at all times been free to
reimburse any player's deposited funds"
So Poker Stars is suppossed to use the correct codes and Visa will honor it?? HA HA HA. I'm sure VISA and every players bank will be more than willing to process these withdrawals with nothing written from the DOJ that it's OK. "You can launder a little more money, it's OK".

I started a withdrawal of cleared funds on PS Saturday when I heard they were accepting cashouts.
I requested the electronic transfer, reluctantly, since a check was suppossed to be longer. It is suppossed to take a few days (in the past I would get it like, next day, don't remember when it was promised back then). When the rest of my funds have cleared tomorrow, I'll try the check withdrawal and see how it goes.

Good luck all

I am willing to bet that the developments of today was a Public Relations stunt by the DOJ.

Picture this, there are millions of poker players effected, they are calling writing and e-mailing about not being able to access their funds. So the DOJ contacts the sites effected to work out something so they can release funds. Some funds are blocked by court order. But the DOJ wants to make it look like they are doing their part to get you your money, knowing that the US players make up 60% of the poker players online and this will create a rush on withdrawals, because not only will all US players be requesting money, but players from all over the world will be doing so as well. I anticipate delays that make the poker sites look bad, and cause even more of a rush n withdrawals and possible the end to 3 of the 4 sites effect.

Time will tell...

That's an interesting point, and having worked over 20 years in the criminal justice system, I would have to say the possibility definitely exists. "Justice" is may be the biggest misnomer this country knows!

FullTilt's statement is that they can't do withdrawals as long as there are bank accounts in 14 countries frozen. SO.. I don't think there was much of an agreement that took place. Plus I really don't see anyone from Stars or Tilt having too many candid conversations with anyone from the DOJ.

I think that any statement coming our of the DOJ is done so with a purpose. Kinda like when they moved forward on the Branch Dividians because they had to "Save" The Children, who ended up dead as an end result.

couple updates....

[www.pokerstars.com] ...pokerstars official page for US customers with funds and what they are doing

[www.pokerstars.com] ....pokerstars main page, now with a statement from them and the agreement with the DOJ and them to return funds.

My favorite part, how they are going to convert T$ and tourney tix into cash....awesome for me.

This still sucks by the way....

THELIVEWIRE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> couple updates....
>
> [www.pokerstars.com]
> ...pokerstars official page for US customers with
> funds and what they are doing
>
> [www.pokerstars.com]
> ....pokerstars main page, now with a statement
> from them and the agreement with the DOJ and them
> to return funds.
>
> My favorite part, how they are going to convert T$
> and tourney tix into cash....awesome for me.
>
> This still sucks by the way....


VIP points too? I think I had 30. lol That should shoot my bankroll all the way up to 92c. I guess i'm lucky to lose my last $200 at FT. Now I don't have to worry about it.lol

PokerStars is in the process of converting the tournament dollars and vpp/fpp into real dollars, according to them. That would be great, however I will accept just the nearly 1900 bucks they owe me. Some of the real high rollers are stuck to the tune of 6 figures each, ouch.

If you had told me PokerStars would be closed for US players 2 weeks ago I would have told you that you were nuts. I just point that out to show that any poker site can be shut down. That is why I do not recommend letting your linger too long at any site. You should always have your bankroll funded, however if you win some money above what you need for your bankroll, then by all means do a withdraw and enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Also the Doc is exactly right, the DOJ is backtracking a lot because this is a lousy way to basically blackmail a company.
There was never any fraud, the bottom line for fraud is to deprive someone of the use of their money through deceptive means. Hell, that definition describes the game of Poker itself exactly.

There is no enlightenment outside of your ownself!

You think you got fulltilt problems,I recieved my fulltilt check in the mail on black friday,which bounced later that week.I imediately sent fulltilt an email about it that day,and still no answer.I sent another email telling fulltilt their check bounced today,but still nothing,and the funds have Not been returned to my fulltilt account.
If the DOJ hasnt blocked sites from cashing out,why did my check bounce?

Your check probably bounced because the DOJ had seized the account it was drawn on at that time, unfortunately.

nightmoves44 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You think you got fulltilt problems,I recieved my
> fulltilt check in the mail on black friday,which
> bounced later that week.I imediately sent fulltilt
> an email about it that day,and still no answer.I
> sent another email telling fulltilt their check
> bounced today,but still nothing,and the funds have
> Not been returned to my fulltilt account.
> If the DOJ hasnt blocked sites from cashing
> out,why did my check bounce?

Ax hit the nail on the head. There were more than 70 accounts in 14 different countries that were frozen.

PokerStars cashier is now open for US players to withdraw their money. You will get all of your cash and Tournament dollars have been converted. No money for vpp/fpp.

There is no enlightenment outside of your ownself!

they converted T$ to money, as promised. Submitted for a bank direct transfer today at 5pm....hope to get before Memorial Day...

PokerStars put my money in the bank already. I used to cash out at PokerStars on a regular basis and it never took more than 3 days to get my money, through Echeck. Even with all of the US players cashing out at one time they still only took 3 days to pay me; once they started paying out.

I know it takes some of the smaller sites a little while to payout withdraws, however it should not take them 6 - 7 weeks. When sites do that it just seems like they are using your money to run their business. I am hoping the newer system at FeltStars is going to be much faster than their old system was. New deposit is quicker than the old one was.

Subscription sites like Grrrinders have it set up to be able to withdraw only 1 day per month, on the 10th I believe, that is fine as long as that is understood upfront no problem. For me the only reason to play Poker is to make money, so withdrawing is important. For people who are strictly recreational players the situation is different.

I hope everybody that has money coming to them from the sites that were closed to US players gets paid.

There is no enlightenment outside of your ownself!

Again.... 7-14 days for cashout at Feltstars. They are a little more removed from the financial processor than Stars is.. and that is EXACTLY the reason Stars got busted... they were to tight with the processor.

This was current as of 02/01/2010, but you can get an idea of what may constitute "bank fraud":

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 63 > § 1344

§ 1344. Bank fraud

Whoever knowingly executes, or attempts to execute, a scheme or artifice—

(1) to defraud a financial institution; or

(2) to obtain any of the moneys, funds, credits, assets, securities, or other property owned by, or under the custody or control of, a financial institution, by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises;

shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.

BTW, nice run, Logan [including your other posts]


LoganWon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PokerStars is in the process of converting the
> tournament dollars and vpp/fpp into real dollars,
> according to them. That would be great, however I
> will accept just the nearly 1900 bucks they owe
> me. Some of the real high rollers are stuck to the
> tune of 6 figures each, ouch.
>
> If you had told me PokerStars would be closed for
> US players 2 weeks ago I would have told you that
> you were nuts. I just point that out to show that
> any poker site can be shut down. That is why I do
> not recommend letting your linger too long at any
> site. You should always have your bankroll funded,
> however if you win some money above what you need
> for your bankroll, then by all means do a withdraw
> and enjoy the fruits of your labor.
>
> Also the Doc is exactly right, the DOJ is
> backtracking a lot because this is a lousy way to
> basically blackmail a company.
> There was never any fraud, the bottom line for
> fraud is to deprive someone of the use of their
> money through deceptive means. Hell, that
> definition describes the game of Poker itself
> exactly.

Re: DOJ allowing the indicted poker sites to refund players' funds

Uh, maybe the DOJ wants to find out exactly who has been playing online (even though it is not "illegal" for the players)?

Maybe they pressure the banks to find out from the refunds, and/or even from the companies themselves.

As I understand it, the only crime Al Capone was convicted of was for tax evasion.

How's that for a conspiracy theory?

If the government can track down UBL from the Black Friday indictments (another conspiracy theory), what other things are they capable of doing?


DrCheckRaise Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
[snip]
> I think that any statement coming our out of the
> DOJ is done so with a purpose.
[snip]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2011 06:43PM by Axman.

4/27/2011 ─ Requested withdrawal from PokerStars
4/30/2011 ─ Withdrawal credited to bank account
5/02/2011 ─ Credit clears bank (hooray!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2011 01:36PM by Axman.

[www.subjectpoker.com]

there is a story on market watch today that says the sale of full tilt is a done deal to a french group. part of deal is agreement to repay players. no time from for deal or repayment as of now. hope this is true and uaually market watch is right on the nose about things like this.

time frame lol

found this story on 3 or 4 other places today. so maybe some hope for down the road. the french buyers are hoping to be back in business by the first of the year. seems a little quick to me with all the problems they are facing. but at least we have some hope now of getting paid.