Hayloftkid brought up a good point in my last post "Betting patterns". He talked about online players, playing more than one game a time. For me, when SC had the 20, 50 and 75 I played them all at once and then signed up for the 500 as well. I learned about myself that I can play 2 fairly well, 3 ok, but 4 impossible. I know that some can play 10 at once but. How many can you be succsessful at? For me I have gone down to one at a time. If your playing more than one, can you really see all the hands and the players actions? Can you really know your opponent? I can not, not yet anyway. Besides not being able to get a good beat on the table, you have the problem of games popping up at the wrong time and pushing the wrong button. ballsasteel had been quoted in Card Player mag a few months ago that when he plays more than one, he finds the express fold function helpful. And congrats on being published mr steel !

So if your playing more than one, consider using the express fold. I never use it as for me I like to make every decision on every hand as they come. My game has improved by playing the player and for me I can only do that if I am watching every hand.

Be honest withyourself, can you play well playing more than one? If you can and your winning carry on. If you can't , go back to one game at a time. Please add your thoughts, I always want to hear from everyone.

I have found for some reason I am more successful when I multi table online. I think it's because it keeps me from getting bored and playing a marginal hand out of shear boredom. I can play up to 9 but have found that my optimal number is 4. I've tried 12 tabling on multiple monitors and it was hectic. I think I was a loser at 12, break even at 9, slight winner at 6, bigger winner at 4. At 2 tables, I might have a slightly higher %roi but lower $profit.

I like the express fold option in SC. Just make sure you don't set it up backwards like I did once. It almost tried to fold my aces!

Amazing . So if your playing 4 games at once, can you see all 4 at the same time? and are you finding that your playing positon and or cards more than playing the player?

sites other than SC that can be resized I can see 4 at once, and if you can see all of them at once, you have a general idea of how people are playing. For a while, I was doing 2 holdem. 1 omaha, and one 7card stud game at the same time, because it was a good way to keep pressure on myself to switch from thinking about the different types of games quickly.
Don't do that now but was fun for a while-now I mostly do 3, often 2 holdem and one omaha. You lose some info on players, but until a lot of people are out, it is mostly card and position anyway.

I tried playing multiple game types at once, but found that it makes it exponentially more difficult, especially the stud games. It's almost impossible to remember up cards while multi tabling. Hold'em is best suited for multi tabling. You definitely play your cards more than the players. You can use a HUD on certain sites that can help. If you are playing 4 tables, you are probably folding on 3 out 4 most of the time anyway.

yeah my stud games were played extremely tight- trips, 3 to a high flush, or 3 connectors to the str8 were the only starting hands I would play, and all I would do is check out the up cards before the ist round of betting had people start folding and after that people pretty much stayed in so their cards were visible.So I may have played a hand every 3 rounds or so. and not all of them to the end.

grat post this sunday i was in the 10k on zos the 250k on stars and the 5k on spade not to mention 2 other tournys from after those ones started and guess what i took a spade club bad beat in 5k and then lost focus in the 250k and lost all tournys except the zos where i cashed 50 bux money i wont get or will be bad check....from now on i will not regester for any tournys after the big ones are running haveing 3 is fine as long as you focus on the biggest one always spade club has express fold option which i love using but have to wonder how I would have done focused

thanks for the reminder and enjoy reading yout posts

My thoughts follow the others.....If I am multitabling, I play in position and premium hands and don't get creative. The trade off is losing those pots that I could have picked up had I been paying attention to my table.

Games that mean more to me, I will cut down. On a site like Stars I like to play 1 tourney and have a few limit cash games open, where I will just play the hands but am still able to concentrate on the tourney. All I am hoping to accomplish is grind out a few more tourney entry fees and to keep from getting loose in my tourney.

It is ridiculus to multitable efficiently with the SC format, but express fold is the trade off. I have been told you can install similar programs for other sites though, just didn't ever get that serious.

I have to agree with donkykong, one game just doesnt keep me focused for online play. When I play live, one is more than enough, lol!!!

I find that 2 is perfect for me. I have moved along nicely playing 2 tournaments at a time, keeps me involved and focused. I have on a few occasions hit wrong buttons...the swear words followed!!! 3 tournaments, I play ok...but 4 or more...forget it!!! I have no clue what is going on in any of them...just simply playing cards and hoping for the best and hitting wrong buttons or timing out.

I read that Nevad Kahn was playing 20 plus sit n go's at the same time regularly and winning. I have trouble winning 1 sit n go at a time. I have been thinking about that a lot. They recorded him playing, all of them at the same time, and he was making money. I think I need to find the recorded session and see how he was playing...card selection...position...etc...there is no way he could be doing anything but playing the cards, and that was obviously enough.

Anyone seen that recorded session??

I can play more than 1 game at a time, as I have the convenience of multiple monitors. What I find though, is that its just not as much fun. I'm basically just "playing by the numbers". Since my nature is very laid back (I'm a reverse hyper), I don't get bored just playing 1 game. Even when I'm not in the hand, I have fun watching the action. I enjoy trying to guess who's got what hand, whose bluffing, etc. I learn more about who I'm competing against.

Kathleen

I had a friend who could play 10 board chess, blindfolded. Try that one on. Oh, and win most if not all. He also played the piano at almost concert level. And, for good measure was a physicist doing breaking work. These people exist, I've known quite a few. They are geniuses with photographic memories. When my son was 14, he was visiting friends of mine and they played a game of trivial pursuit. When he came home, he said "now I understand what a genius is". Since I had been trying to explain this to him, I asked him why he now understood. Well, when it was Menasha's turn-game over. He knew the answer to every question across all the subjects. .So, of course Khan could do this. It's just a rare talent and requires a very hyper person, which he is.

Kathleen

Single table sit n goes are most conducive to multi tabling because they are almost formulaic in approach.

There are different preferences the timing, such as do I start all the tables at the same time so that the blind levels are consistent, or do you stagger them so that it isn't crazy hectic if you are three handed on 4 tables at the same time.

portlandford Wrote:

>
> I read that Nevad Kahn was playing 20 plus sit n
> go's at the same time regularly and winning. I
> have trouble winning 1 sit n go at a time. I have
> been thinking about that a lot. They recorded him
> playing, all of them at the same time, and he was
> making money. I think I need to find the recorded
> session and see how he was playing...card
> selection...position...etc...there is no way he
> could be doing anything but playing the cards, and
> that was obviously enough.
>
> Anyone seen that recorded session??

Hevad Kahn (H..) (plays under "RaiNKhaN" was actually suspended by PokerStars. PokerStars said that no one could play more than 24 SNGs at a time and accused him of being a bot. Fortunately I was able to find a link to the original video he made of himself playing 26 SNGs, simultaneously, on ONE MONITOR (and not a big one at that). He presented the video to PokerStars and was reinstated. Full Circle, he's now a Team PokerStars Pro. He's got it set for the table to pop up to the front when it's his turn (a setting that I find irritating because it yanks the cursor from wherever you are typing at the moment and you start typing in chat instead).







The second link is a more recent recording of him playing 26? at once. Something I hadn't noticed before, it looks like he must be playing with the keyboard commands that PokerStars has, instead of the mouse.






OK I see the video seems to show in the post, I thought you needed to use the embedded link for that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2009 11:42AM by RocketmAAn.

I would really like to see how Kahn deals with 20 tables at the bubble at the same time. That has to be intense.

I read a good, but short, post some time ago about how to play against Multi-Tablers. Recently, I was unable to find it again, nor could I find other posts like it. From what I can remember, it suggested that the MTBLR usually defend their blinds. If it was checked around to them in the BB they would usually put in a raise to get everyone to fold. The author suggested that usually if you reraised back, they would fold. For me, I have found that the majority aren't playing many hands, so when they raise preflop, Until I see what they are playing, I'll tend to stay out of the hand since they usually will raise aggressively post flop regardless of what they have. Occasionally, I think that they are there just to break even and collect FPPs. Why else would I see a SuperNova at PokerStars sitting at the .10c/.25c PLO8 table (and not doing much)?

I've been thinking recently, if I multi-table, what would be my strategy. Most of the time, I would lose knowing the payers well enough to call bluffs or force them to fold based on the situation and observed play. It's got to be harder to bluff that you're thinking about playing a marginal hand, when you hold the nuts, etc.. Part of deciding what to do, was thinking about how others would play against me.

Which brings me to my question.

What strategies do you employ against a MTBLR?

So far I have tried to stay away from tables where they are playing (either because they may be good or they play tight so the table's not very profitable). It will usually be a long time before they are in a hand where they show what they have. It makes it difficult to determine what I think is important, what do they push big with after the flop. For some it will be FH others 2 pair will be enough or even just high pair. While I try and keep emotions checked at the table, when I take a big chunk out of one of them by standing up to their over aggressive betting with a better hand, i say out loud "Take that." and blow the smoke off the end of my finger gun.

I'm a relative newby at this. What are you more savvy players doing?

RocketmAAn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I read a good, but short, post some time ago
> about how to play against Multi-Tablers. Recently,
> I was unable to find it again, nor could I find
> other posts like it. From what I can remember,
> it suggested that the MTBLR usually defend their
> blinds. If it was checked around to them in the
> BB they would usually put in a raise to get
> everyone to fold. The author suggested that
> usually if you reraised back, they would fold.
> For me, I have found that the majority aren't
> playing many hands, so when they raise preflop,
> Until I see what they are playing, I'll tend to
> stay out of the hand since they usually will raise
> aggressively post flop regardless of what they
> have. Occasionally, I think that they are there
> just to break even and collect FPPs. Why else
> would I see a SuperNova at PokerStars sitting at
> the .10c/.25c PLO8 table (and not doing much)?
>
> I've been thinking recently, if I multi-table,
> what would be my strategy. Most of the time, I
> would lose knowing the payers well enough to call
> bluffs or force them to fold based on the
> situation and observed play. It's got to be
> harder to bluff that you're thinking about playing
> a marginal hand, when you hold the nuts, etc..
> Part of deciding what to do, was thinking about
> how others would play against me.
>
> Which brings me to my question.
>
> What strategies do you employ against a MTBLR?
>
> So far I have tried to stay away from tables where
> they are playing (either because they may be good
> or they play tight so the table's not very
> profitable). It will usually be a long time
> before they are in a hand where they show what
> they have. It makes it difficult to determine what
> I think is important, what do they push big with
> after the flop. For some it will be FH others 2
> pair will be enough or even just high pair. While
> I try and keep emotions checked at the table, when
> I take a big chunk out of one of them by standing
> up to their over aggressive betting with a better
> hand, i say out loud "Take that." and blow the
> smoke off the end of my finger gun.
>
> I'm a relative newby at this. What are you more
> savvy players doing?


As someone that mass tables at times, and I say at times when I always run 12-16 SNG's at least depending on how fast the games fill, I aim for 18-24 at time usually. Don's its easy to get up to 50 which is the max tables I will run, and cash tables stars only allows 24 of them at a time.

I will tell you how I am playing more or less.

I stack tables one on top of the other so I am only seeing one table at a time. I use a program to close tables I have busted out on, register me into games, size my bets and so forth.

I use HEM, with a HUD showing me ~30 different stats for each person, I cant even see cards that are upped at my table for the majority of the people, as different info is displayed over that area. I am not worried if I win or lose the hand, if I played it in a way that is going to win over time. That is why I prefer volume play, it helps with the variance of the game and to overcome it quickly as well as increase hourly winnings. If I click in the area the stats are then I have alot more information on a bigger popup screen if I want to look at something I normally do not use real quick. All the information is data I have chosen to have displayed for my personal preference. I am using those numbers to make virtually every decision and I only have to "scan" the table before doing so and can make them quickly since I knew exactly what info I need at the time and where it is. Like if someone has a low steal %, I am not going to defend my blinds against them, while someone with a high steal % I am 3 betting like crazy against. Someone that does not defend their blinds, I am stealing like crazy, but someone that does, I will not steal as much from. That should give you an idea of what I am talking about, but its not just in relation to steals. Its every step of the way, preflop, flop, turn, and river.

Your right that I am playing tight in general, but if I am pretty sure I can get heads up against someone I can play a certain way profitably, then 23o+ is my range when against them as my cards are useless if they are playing thiers.

If you was to play me due to the way I am playing someone else that plays totally different from you, then you really wont have an idea of what I am doing or why, since I am playing against you in a totally different way, based on your stats and not theirs. If you are a rock and I am shoving the river against you, rest assured I got the nuts or very close to it, yet if your a loose calling station that loses most of your showdowns I might be shoving with TPTK, or even worse, but not a total bluff.

As far as making comments if you nail me, I will rarely ever see it. My tab is set to the info tab, and many times I do not even know when I win or lose a hand at showdown, even if it busts me out of the game. I do not have to see the end result if I know it works or wins, since I do not care about a single result. Sometimes I am just totally wrong on what I am thinking and why, but being wrong a few times out of many is not a reason for me to stop playing in ways I am consistently winning with. I do review hands later on though, to make sure when I have time to think about it I am playing the way I should be and to be able to recognize things quicker when I do not have the time to think about it.

For your question of how to play people that mutli alot of tables, I cant really say one way that will work against all of them, against me it would be to play far different than a way you would normally play. Remember, you have one or maybe just a few tables, so losing a hand or busting out means much more to you than it does to me. In fact a single hand or game does not mean anything at all to me, I could care less actually, winning long term results is all that matter to me.

Great insight Nerice. I love mass tabling too. I had to stop using a HUD because it got to be too cluttered, but I think I should go back to it because it is very useful when mass tabling because you can't observe anything. I'd love to get a screen shot of your layout. What do you use for auto close/register etc? I use StarsHotKeys.

The question I have for you is how do you deal with players that you have a low volume of data on? Do you adjust to volume for accuracy somehow or do you just go with the stats regardless?

What HUD are you using and what other tools do u use? SNGWIz?

One area I know I need to improve on is the post game analysis. After a mass tabling session I'm so wiped out I don't wan't to look at another hand. Then I when I'm back in the mood again, I just want to jump back into a session. Do you have a regiment for going over hands later?

Thx

DK