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Applying Pressure is Winning (Watching the big dogs......)

Applying Pressure is Winning (Watching the big dogs......)
avatar Subject :  Applying Pressure is Winning (Watching the big dogs......)
Date:       January 05, 2009 08:41AM
I love watching the game as much as playing it, and everyday one thing becomes clearer and clearer. Applying Pressure I am only beginning to have the confidence to use, there is a big part of me that thinks tight is right.

I watch players like myself, Poker1040 who are more Tag than lag. With only a few good hands to build a stack, we can go pretty far. Good results, sometimes great. Then there are players who are supertight, make it to alot of finals but don't win many.

Todays 30k sold me. The winner never let off his opponents from start to finish. Never mind him though, I have spent a great deal of time playing with players like AndrewB and Mirek78. Hayloft and Portlandford are also good examples, but they might be a little less crazy, LOL. Our forum founder Mr DrCheckRaise himself rounds off my examples.

What do they all have in common? They just don't let off. They pick up orphan pots, something I am trying to do more of. Do these players get more good cards then us? No. What they do is play hard at players. Does this mean they are commited to seeing every hand to show down? No. But they keep the pressure on. Sometimes they even gamble just to send a message.

Works for me in the Dailys. Why not in the big games? Works for me live. Cause I can see my opponents. But Why not again in the big Monthly and Weekly games?

Its about pressure. The bigger the game the less I want to make a mistake. Second guess myself. Worry about making a donk call pre-flop. Probabbly the biggest hole in my game, and maybe many others.

We have to convince ourselves to apply pressure once we build chips. I have the problem of shutting down when I am chipleader midway through. Yet ever notice how sometimes we play more aggresively to save our skin short stacked?

Our cards never change, our frame of mind does. This is what I need to work on and subsites offer tons of players who are feeling more pressured than the average intermediate player should.

Yes, there are days when we just can't get off the ground but with less than an average good day of cards we have all stomped a game or two right? To win more often my goal will be to build confidence in applying pressure.

That is the true meaning behind the saying any two cards can win. They are all capable of applying the same pressure when played by a great player. Doesn't mean they actually beat the other players hand.

Not only do the other players fear the pressure they know they will have to face, but they also let their guard down out of frustration. Watch the guys I mentioned. Not to try to outplay them, but to learn from them and win like them.

PS. I watched almost the entire 30k tonight, Played for 2 hours with the guy that won it. Had open the final 3 tables. There is no doubt in my mind this is the key. Subscription site are a low risk place to breed this monster attitude.

(A few days later)

It never hurts to read the whole thread, but after long thought and 14 hours of play, I found something I missed but should have known..........




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2009 04:13AM by jontm.
Re: Applying Pressure is Winning $$$$. (Todays 30k)
avatar Subject :  Re: Applying Pressure is Winning $$$$. (Todays 30k)
Date:       January 05, 2009 03:40PM
Gonna work on improving the LAG gears.

Plan to experiment with 3 bets in the BB, and 3 late positions right from when the gates open. I will use the dailys and the point builders to see how it works out.

I expect it will be tough, lot of players will gamble back but the goal is to be ready to do the same in the next 30k. If I go out in the first hour, oh well, it must be done to break the passiveness.........



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2009 06:34PM by jontm.
Re: Applying Pressure is Winning $$$$. (Todays 30k)
avatar Subject :  Re: Applying Pressure is Winning $$$$. (Todays 30k)
Date:       January 05, 2009 05:37PM
jontm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Plan to experiment with 3 bets in the BB and 3
> positions right when the gates open.........

> I expect it will be tough, lot of players will
> gamble back

This is good, almost NO ONE 3-bets pf, and even fewer fold to a 3-bet. It's almost as if they take it personally. Of course, if we're 3-betting with a premium hand such action is encouraged. Late in the tourney though, when you have a stack, I've gotten some people to (gasp!) fold pf after I fire back out of the blinds. Most of the sub site players know the value of position, but aren't too familiar with the concept of re-stealing the blinds, and will give you credit for a hand.... or at least fear elimination. I've been the big stack in tournaments on SC several times only to get cold-carded and whittled back down the field because of a unwillingness to keep playing with less-than-premium holdings, but the blinds will eventually catch everyone in these tourneys, not just the short stax.

-G
Re: Applying Pressure is Winning $$$$. (Todays 30k)
avatar Subject :  Re: Applying Pressure is Winning $$$$. (Todays 30k)
Date:       January 05, 2009 08:41PM
Think I should consider 4 or 5x BB?

Lets pump it up to 4 at least for my trail with ATC........

So far 4x and 5x is way too much, get called anyway and the games are loose........

gonna go smaller, that is thining the field a bit @ 3x.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2009 04:17AM by jontm.
Re: Applying Pressure is Winning $$$$. (Todays 30k)
avatar Subject :  Re: Applying Pressure is Winning $$$$. (Todays 30k)
Date:       January 06, 2009 05:49AM
I played the 75 cash last night pissed off/tilting. I made at least 3 bad calls preflop with marginal hands, and several postflop bad calls where i knew i was beat and wasn't getting the right odds to call,for example had top pair bad kicker and caught my kicker to draw out, and out of a total of probably 9 calls i knew were bad, i won 8 of the hands. Only one did not end up going my way. Ended up at FT.
This has put me in a confused state of mind-I played bad and continually got lucky. Maybe I need to play bad all the time? And they were all bad calls, not bluff betting or any aggresive actions (calling being passive), so now the question is "Are the people who feel the RNG favors the bad beat correct? And if so, then how can you get the players who should fold out? Those are where the bad beats come from- people who dont know enough to fold or don''t care about the result as long as they are in action.
As for preflop raise, at least for early rounds I ignore BB and bet around 2x pot now and that has seemed to work a little better than standard raise. If chip stack allows me to continue, I do it all the way till I either have to limp or go allin to see a flop,when chip stack wont allow anything in between.
Re: Applying Pressure is Winning $$$$. (Todays 30k)
avatar Subject :  Re: Applying Pressure is Winning $$$$. (Todays 30k)
Date:       January 06, 2009 06:45AM
I am feeling what you are saying so much right now Poker1040!

I am starting to get paroniod myself, LOL. Seriously been rivered alot tonight by the perffect card.

All that said, I am not having much sucess raising just on position.

Got back focused, determined to find something that worked. Started 3 betting late in the game or more than pot, just was a little more selctive with hands.

Started playing suited connectors and loosed my starting hands to include a10, k 10 etc. Seemed to come out on top alot, putting presure on weak players and never being more than a slight dog.


Gonna work that a bit more. Got creamed in the cash games, but point builders and sng's it is working good.

Starting to get comfortable with the stack swings, defianetlly a roller coaster but coming together.

Gonna keep popping the clutch till I can smoke the tires!
Re: Applying Pressure is Winning $$$$. (Todays 30k)
avatar Subject :  Re: Applying Pressure is Winning $$$$. (Todays 30k)
Date:       January 06, 2009 07:28AM
yeah k10 was one of those hands that did well for me in my "i don't care mode" .all second rate hands were ones that won- 3rd rate hand j7 suited was the one that lost. My AJ lost to A10 2x in the 30k before my Aces took me out so maybe 10s are "lucky"? Can't make a str8 without either a 5 or a 10, so maybe those cards are favored?. I am baffled by what to do.My allin short stack K9 held up against the two blinds, my pQs lost to AK on a river K so it all getsso old after a while. Oh well, tomorrow is another day.
Re: Applying Pressure is Winning (Watching the big dogs......)
avatar Subject :  Re: Applying Pressure is Winning (Watching the big dogs......)
Date:       January 07, 2009 04:10AM
Some times I get focused so much on one concept I go backwards in my game.

Get frustrated and hope for a magic formula. The following posts are days that we all have. But experimenting never hurts.

There is good in this frustration, the missing piece is focus and switching gears!
Re: Applying Pressure is Winning (Watching the big dogs......)
avatar Subject :  Re: Applying Pressure is Winning (Watching the big dogs......)
Date:       January 07, 2009 09:46AM
I love to apply pressure in position!!! I will try and tell a story and apply pressure to my opponent. This does get me in trouble at times when my opponent hits and lets me take control. I will bet as though I have the best hand all the way through. But sometimes I have the hand!! I try and bet the same no matter what. I would say 75% of the time, if I have position, I will win the hand, cards don't matter. I have learned to raise with less than premium hands in late position, even with limpers in front of me. Doesn't always pay off, but less than premium hands are easier to get away from!

portlandford
Switching Gears (Tight or Loose Aggressive?)
avatar Subject :  Switching Gears (Tight or Loose Aggressive?)
Date:       January 07, 2009 04:03AM
Trying so hard to do this, but sometimes its costing me a hard earned chipstack.......

What I am sold on is that loose aggresive works better at the end of the tourney than early in the small games.

I am sure it is because there are newer players who fold more to the pressure. I am not saying to play like a donk, but betting have at those who are playing tight and can afford to fold is working pretty good.

But in the big games, I find those willing to play hard right from the begining seem to do well.

I think once you have a big stack it becomes increasingly important to single out opponents you can bully BUT watching out that those you can't are not in the pot.

Time and time again it comes down to Focus. We really have to be 100% in tune with our table to know which gear to choose and sometimes it takes the shifting skillz of a racecar driver.

I know there are times that it seems foolish to take chances with a huge lead midway through a game, but love it or hate it sometimes we will get caught and need a suckout.

That said, nothing sucks more to me than getting blinded out of a game I was owning cause I got nervous and shut down. I have to remind myself that solid play built the stack, (sometimes with the help of the poker gods), but its far from over. I don't think the RNG rewards the players as much as the poker gods like to see a chip tower roll some heads.

I think after a player cashes enough to be ahead of the fees and reaches a few goals it should become less of a mental burden to risk it all for the wins.

The loose aggresive style is nerve racking to a tight player like me, but I watch alot of tourneys and players and there isn't many times I have seen someone take it down without a few hairy moments and some heart wretching beats and chip swings.

Again, with so many games available, I want to practise this hard so it becomes increasingly more second nature and subconsious. Even if it doesn't pay off regularly here I will guarantee you we will be compensated for our efforts against most home game buddies and the right casino tables.

Opponent Selection, Opponent Selection and Position are the most important thing in choosing spots and gears.

Big hands don't always hurt either, as long as we don't playem to fast and hard against the wrong opponent........

Even champion drivers need brakes!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2009 04:06AM by jontm.
Re: Switching Gears (Tight or Loose Aggressive?)
avatar Subject :  Re: Switching Gears (Tight or Loose Aggressive?)
Date:       January 07, 2009 09:21AM
Cashed in the 1k for the second time this week, but it was only 5 bucks.

Could have blinded into bigger money, but that would mean being hypocrtical to my goals and posts.

Got the gears working way better tonight. Found opponents to keep me ahead of the pack.

The most important thing I found to make switching gears possible was remove express fold and play only 2 games.

Towards the end, got on a tough table with a few larger stacks and only 2 opponents that were easy targets.

The big stack was not afraid to make plays and would raise and race with any two. This was not a good thing. The table average was about 60k. I peaked at 79k. Took lots of pots along the way with nothing, I just spread them out.

Was managing to take a blind about every rotation or so, a number ground into me by SCKenny for end of tourney play.

Towards break and the next money cut, the action was getting heavy and the pressure building and here is were I fell apart.

With 50k left I was raised hard in the small blind of 3k. The bet would leave me with only 10k. I had pocket 5's and figured because my opponent bet so much, he needed to hit, making it a close coin toss.

This much was true, but I should think it further.

a) 55 can be played in this case but only if I have enough chips to push my opponent off on a rag or scary board. Now it is only a race, because I cannot make him fold with what I have left.

b) With only 3k invested and the button and break next, I have time to regain composure.

c) 3 of the bullys have blead off their chips. My table image and their state of mind (clearly shutting down, waiting) now gives me the oppurtunity to turn the tables and apply pressure. Preflop pots will now be 18k and a 25k bet should win it in the right spot.

Very bad way to end a tourney, clearly, as always a race is the worst play I can make. I was good on the flop, but the king ten hit turn and river. That really doesn't matter, I played the hand all wrong. Shouldn't have played it all.

The only thing I am happy about is I refused to be blinded out and took a chance. Not the right one, but the right attitude somewhat. There was over 100k in the pot, I might have been singing a different tune.

Course had I used the brakes..............




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2009 09:30AM by jontm.
Re: Switching Gears (Tight or Loose Aggressive?)
avatar Subject :  Re: Switching Gears (Tight or Loose Aggressive?)
Date:       January 07, 2009 09:37AM
Jon,

I watched the last hand, and considering the pot size that had grown, not a bad play! You pushed...your opponent had to call the race. He played with less than a premuim hand...you could have pushed with so many hands that had him dominated. I hate calling for more than 50% of my chips for a race. But I dont mind pushing my chips in for a race.

You played very well tonight!!!
Re: Switching Gears (Tight or Loose Aggressive?)
avatar Subject :  Re: Switching Gears (Tight or Loose Aggressive?)
Date:       January 07, 2009 11:36PM
Early in a tournament I am beginning to think a loose passive approach might work with speculative hands in position and hope to hit a monster or out play your opponent with position, but play a TAG game from early position and with premium hands from late position.

Short stacked is the time I seemed to change to LAG either stealing the blinds or restealing from another LAG, but becareful not to try and steal from a maniac, playing the table and the individual players.
Re: Switching Gears (Tight or Loose Aggressive?)
avatar Subject :  Re: Switching Gears (Tight or Loose Aggressive?)
Date:       January 10, 2009 09:42PM
Poker1040 has thrown a good post in really showing the math on small pockets in the FIT or FOLD area, reccomended reading for sure!
What was working when playing TAG.
avatar Subject :  What was working when playing TAG.
Date:       January 04, 2009 08:11AM
I already mention this to Poker1040 and Portland, but not a horrible day on the felts.

Playing Super Tight Aggresive in all but late position. Started making my Subscription site plays after about half hour+ play. Squeezed up towards end of tourney.

With the exception of the Omaha, lost with the best hand on the flop. That is to be expected, if I won the pivotal hand in each, this would have a great day instead of pretty good.


Jan 03, 09 11:50 PM $75 Daily Cash 11th 100 Points (over 700 players) My Peak stack 65k

Jan 03, 09 11:26 PM $1,000 Saturday Special 22nd $10.00 , 400 Points (over 1000 players) My peak stack 70k

Jan 03, 09 09:29 PM $50 Pot-Limit Omaha Daily 27th 90 Points My Peak stack 30k

Jan 03, 09 09:29 PM $30K Qualifier 16th 400 Points My Peak stack 10k

Call me bubble boy but the worst was that I had to dump my $75 daily with 11 to go and got blinded out with 60k in chips. My daughter needed to be picked up from work.

The Omaha game, I had no excuse, got caught tilting after getting rivered by a 7 high flush in the Red Token Qualifier.

The most important reason I went deep today was folding great but not premium hands before I invested chips and got commited.

AJ, AQ, KQ and JJ, 10 10 were all hands I dumped without a limp in poor position or on the wrong side of a loose opponnent. Didn't bother with many mid pairs. Sometimes I raised with them, but folded to a reraise everytime.

I almost never played q 10, kj or j10.

Maybe played Ace rag suited 10 times throughout all 4 tourneys.

Mucked AK into 3 or more all ins. Found spots to get the chips back when I was in the drivers seat. Probabbly 18 out of 20 times I would have lost these hands, or gone broke. A couple would have been good.


What I could have done better was to not gear down at the 3/4 mark in the tourney. About 45 minutes of good aggresion time was left and I should have been looking to add about 20% to each of my peak stacks in order to be large enough to survive the blinds and have chips to steal blinds with.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2009 05:43AM by jontm.
Re: Some decent results, and what was working.
avatar Subject :  Re: Some decent results, and what was working.
Date:       January 04, 2009 08:26AM
I should add, The Hands I was folding more than usual are all hands I would play hard in other spots, but I feel good about folding them today because I was not getting into trouble by keeping the "gap concept" as rule number 1#

They just aren't good enough in those situations, I hate coin flips.

Just telling myself to wait for a better SPOT. Spot not hand,
Critical but juicy "High Pressure Spots"
avatar Subject :  Critical but juicy "High Pressure Spots"
Date:       January 08, 2009 08:28AM
We have all read it, Its easy to think about but harder to do.

Playing the bubble. Its a frustrating and high stress time, but those with biggest knads come out ahead.

You know they know, but you can't do anything about it, right?

Sometimes, it's tough to get in there, but even one or two quick spots can take you from bubble boy to having a deep finish. This is probabbly the best place in the tourney to just close your eyes and raise with Any two cards against a tight player on the blinds, or a bully thats hogging up his share.

Its even harder to do when your sitting on good chips, but it is the best place for a steal and to pad your stack for the flury after the bubble pops.

Some Multitable tourneys have a few bubble or money increments. Also on subscription sites many players are looking to just make final, so there are potentially multiple bubble play oppurtunities.

Near breaks and when the blinds are escualating to make an even average stack sweat, players also start to crack.

For some reason, we use breaks as a milestones, looking to make it just past the next break. Same mentality as "making final".

There are two ways to fall apart. One is to shut down and get eaten away, blind by blind.

The other is to give up to the pressure and make a loose play in a bad spot.

Not many players are immune to either, myself sometimes at the top of the sweating bullets, falling apart list.

Don't worry about "defending your blinds" with crap. Instead when spots arrive to send a message by playing back, do it.

Tell yourself to let those crap spots go and really dig in and look for a spot to steal them back. Don't worry about your hand, just look for a weaker player who is feeling all the same pressure. Wait for the LAG chipleader to show weakness too.

Sometimes its gonna backfire. But.....getting comfortable with these critical moments can shift your momentum to slingshot you to the win or deep cash. Never overcoming the pressure will lead to alot of heartbreaking bubbles...........

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