So why do we think Ace rag and K rag are Donk hands? What about small and mid pockets into a raise? What about suited connectors? The book says "Good Players FOLD!"

I think this all we get stuck on hearing some times. When we hashed up "Fit or Fold" some great leaks were exposed and great points made.

Yes, calling a raise to try and win the blinds against a heads up opponent or a bunch of all ins for your tournement life, not such a good play.

Calling an overbet without the best of drawing hands or made pockets, risky, maybe there are huge implied odds.

With position and better than 3-1 odds and a mountain of chips on the button or late position? Huge leak if we aren't playing a playable hand.

We get to see who is in the pot and what they will do first. +1 for the good guys. Even a raise doesn't mean our K isn't good. We just need to read your opponents. Maybe we hit the flop hard, get a piece or pick up a huge draw. Either way we know what we have to call or are in position to be the first raiser.

I think we get stuck on our table image. We want to hear "BLANK plays solid poker!"

Put if we are a playing solid poker we need to get into pots in profitable situations. We need to open up our playable hand range. We just need be good enough to stay out of trouble (poor odds, implied and pot) situations. We need to be able to fold if we hit the wrong piece. We need to pay attention to position and opponents.

DONKS call in poor situations.

We can't just win with Premium Hands. Even if they are best its hard to get paid off and we just don't get enough of them 90 days out of 100. If we rely on them, we tend to play them scared, risking it all, chasing away opponents, or pot commiting ourselves to be outdrawn.

We are relying on luck just as much as the donks. If we are truly good, we should be able to play alot of hands a lot of ways, depending on the situation.

These are a few problems I've noticed at times in my game:

Playing Pocket Pairs or Ace rag as if it was a shorthanded game.

Talking my self into my Ace or Rag when I was going to try to flush, and the action clearly shows otherwise.

Folding my Pockets two early or my draw, when the pot is offering me odds to take another card.

Playing these types of hands when my stack is too low to afford it, or not playing them when my stack can.


In short, no, not only Donks play that, they just play it in the wrong spots or for the wrong reasons.

Thats what the other 200 pages of "the book" says, At least once we learn to read it. Still working on that........



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2009 11:11PM by jontm.

We have tons of thoughts on this. I will throw my 2 cents in on Subscription site play. Ace 6, 7, 8 are almost useless.

A2-A5 are useless unsuited and then are fit or fold hands. A-9,10 & J, well it depends on position.

With less than 7 players or late position, I will pump them preflop. Why? Cause most newer players will pre flop raise all of these aces. If they haven't, I can assume I have the best kicker most times.

AJ or A10, into a pot that is raised, but not more than 3x, I will see a cheap flop to try to hit a hand, if I am in position and if my opponent has shown to be a looser player.

My reason for not dumping is that KJ, KQ, QJ, mid pockets, smaller aces etc will all raise on sub sites. I wouldn't think twice about folding these live or in cash games, but remember.......

Subscription Sites are a whole different animal. The risk/reward makes for looser play. With a little adjustment in textbook play, there are tons of spots and playable hands.

Again these are strategies more for dailys and the first half of the 30k or 5K.

Suprisingly they work well in live play at the $60 buy in level, again for the first half of the game. I have found 3xBB and 5X only effective early in bigger games, $150 + in live play.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2009 02:28PM by jontm.

Hello All,

The main strategy change I have taken with the classic ace-rag...is position, position, position...as well as, go into the hand with a specific idea in mind. How am I going to play these cards...and if I miss (most the time) get away from them. Stick with idea of why I played this hand. If I miss and an ace hits or two of my rags fall on the board...be prepared to play a very small pot.

Ace rag suited cards...late position and I am looking for a flush...if an ace hits the board without a flush draw think small pot...I will check it down and take a small pot...ok I might take one stab at it...but if I am called...I am done betting.

Ace rag unsuited. Late position!!! Forget ace- 6-7-8-9!!! I am looking for a straight...if its not there, simply follow the same pattern as above. I HAVE to be true to my plan and be ready to take down a very small pot if an ace hits or trips with my rag...or loose a very small pot if the other players hit.

I guess I am just saying have a plan in your head...if it doesnt come to pass be ok with getting away from the hand. Just remember your trips can be someone elses full house, and your ace can easily be dominated by a bigger kicker.

Thats my thoughts...at least early in a tournament....it all changes later with the blinds high and when stealing is in session.

portlandford