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Decrease Your Bad Beats

Decrease Your Bad Beats
avatar Subject :  Decrease Your Bad Beats
Date:       October 13, 2009 10:23PM
We hear alot of talk about bead beats. I am going to tell you why you suffer so many bad beats and help you to decrease those bad beats by as much as 50%.

You can hear players say they they got their money in with the best hand, and that is a major goal of this game, but when you get your money in with the best hand is what determines whether or not you suffer a bad beat or not.

All in pre-flop will get you sucked out on over and over again. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of times when it is right to get all your chips in pre-flop. But consider that chip stacks being equal, and you are not short stacked at a table, being all in pre-flop will not serve you in the long run. Likewise, all in on the flop will get you called by flush draws and straight draws with 2 cards to come. The safer approach would be to let the turn peel off and make sure that the straight card or the flush card does not come. they are less likely to call an all in after the turn has missed them, and if they do, they are less likely to hit it with only one card left to come.

I think that all in on the flop on a flush draw is a bad move as well. What if your opponent is on the same flush draw, but with a higher flush draw. he/she calls, you both miss, and they high card you to take down the pot. You are much better off to make a bet on your flush draw to take control of the hand, make a bet on the turn as well., and if you have determined that they are on the same draw you are fire that third bullet on the river. If they missed they cannot call. This scenario is one where being first to act is actually better than being on the button.

Just to revisit a little. You are much better off getting all your chips in after the turn has assured you that you still have the best hand. If you do get a call there, you are certainly doing so with better odds than you would have been doing on the flop. they are making a bad call at this point and bad calls by you opponent can chip you up.


Another thing to consider. Moving all in on the flop against multiple players is a recipe for a bad beat. Consider that you have say 10 4 With a flop of Jack Ten four with 2 suited cards on the board
You have 3 other opponents who have:
Ace Jack
Queen Nine
and four to a flush

Now you may have the best hand at this time, but there are at least 16 cards out there that can lose you the hand.

Pay attention to board texture, and your timing before you get your chips all in. If you do not want to be called, make sure that they are not getting their monies worth to make the call. If you do want a call, then make a bet that is sure to get called, and maybe event get you raised.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2009 01:16AM by DrCheckRaise.
Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
avatar Subject :  Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
Date:       October 14, 2009 12:40AM
why risk your game even with the best hand if the pot is small. example early in sc game 3k start chips blind 50/100 the pot is 300 to 400 you have kq flop comes k34 you bet pot villian bets allin. its an easy call you should have the best hand but y risk your game in a pot that you have 400 chips into. you fold with the best hand you still have 2500 chips left. my personal thought are i will never risk my game without top 2 pr or better and even with 2 pr it depends on the player and the board
Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
avatar Subject :  Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
Date:       October 14, 2009 12:24PM
Makes note to pressure pre-flop more to DCR avatars. (lol)
Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
avatar Subject :  Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
Date:       October 15, 2009 11:11AM
It depends on the game. If I hit K top pair with Q kicker in the first few hands of a $10 or $20 on SC, I am ahead 90% of the time so I'm taking the pot. Then if I'm card dead for an hour I can survive longer when the blinds go up. In a real poker game I wouldn't even play KQ anyway so it's a different story.
Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
avatar Subject :  Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
Date:       October 15, 2009 04:30PM
Swig, you miss the point. With the example that you gave, you have KQ and the flop is k 7 4 two hearts....
Your opponent had Ace 7 hearts.....
If you shove on the flop you are more likely to get a bad beat then if you shove on the turn because your opponent is 58% to improve his hand to beat you, and more likely to make that call with 2 cards to come...

If you wait until the turn to shove those chips in then your opponent 28-29% to improve his hand and alot less likely to make the call with only one card to come.

So yes the object is to take down the pot, I am just telling you the best way to do that. Taking that down on the flop is harder to do because there are two cards to come and you are charging your opponent one price to get 2 cards, he might call and he IS favored...... there is a 29% danger in letting the turn come off, yet if you shove the flop, you are NOT favored in this hand.... you want to wait to shove your chips in when you are the favorite...This more often than not is on the turn, because the price you are charging only buys them one card, not two.
Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
avatar Subject :  Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
Date:       October 15, 2009 08:23PM
No, I know what you meant - I said I'm "taking the pot" which means I'm betting strong on the flop and if it's still safe I'm happy to get all my chips in on the turn. The point I'm making is that I'm happy to go with top pair Q kicker in the early stages of those low $$ freerolls on SC. Not in a "real" game though.
Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
avatar Subject :  Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
Date:       October 16, 2009 12:57AM
Another thing to consider. Moving all in on the flop against multiple players is a recipe for a bad beat. Consider that you have say Jack 10 With a flop of Jack Ten Queen with 2 suited cards on the board
You have 3 other opponents who have:
Ace Queen
King Nine
and four to a flush

not be picky, but in the example you're not ahead...king nine is a straight on that board. You are losing and there aren't many cards that can help you. Letting people hang around the pot is a great way to get beat by some joker with J10 that loves his cards so much that if you don't raise preflop enough, you're bound to get either beat when he flops two pair or runner runner flush/straight and he couldn't fold a pair to your bet. You have to protect good hands and also punish those people that play trash. I play the micro limits on stars and can typically see someone min raise with aces and the bet strong after the flop to get beat by two pair, etc. This game is ever changing, no set strategy will win over time other than aggressive patience and making good decisions.

m
Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
avatar Subject :  Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
Date:       October 16, 2009 01:09AM
True,,,, the point of the exercise is.. that the FLOP is the wrong place to get your chips in while ahead.. the turn is the place to do that. people will pay the all in flop price for 2 cards to come.. they generally will not pay the all in price after the turn for only one card to come, and if they do they are paying way too much for one card and that is the position that you want you opponent to be in

P.S. I made the adjustment needed to make the example a lil more accurate.. Thanks Mark, remind me to check-raise you on the river



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2009 01:18AM by DrCheckRaise.
Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
avatar Subject :  Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
Date:       October 16, 2009 01:31AM
you can check raise me any time....that implies that i'll bet when you check..lol
Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
avatar Subject :  Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
Date:       October 15, 2009 02:44PM
To reduce your bad beats from bad players, become a bad player, lol. cool smiley
Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
avatar Subject :  Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
Date:       October 16, 2009 04:30AM
That was good Dr. Thanks. Any more tips please?
Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
avatar Subject :  Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
Date:       October 16, 2009 04:32AM
I know the best way to avoid bad beats. always go in with the worst hand. Lol
Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
avatar Subject :  Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
Date:       October 17, 2009 12:22AM
I am reading that people think some of the subscription sites are not real games. PPC, SC etc... are not real? For a moment lets us work under the assumption that these sites are not real.

Unless your time is totally worthless; then anytime you play at a subscription site you have an investment (your time) in the outcome of any game you play there.

So what if you think these sites are not real or less than real? Spending your time playing on them, even for practice, all adds up to the total amount of hands you have played. Therefore these sites become important to your overall poker training.

Why would anyone want to develope bad habits? Repetition develops success. Playing your "A" game only when you think the game is important is a recipe for losing. If you can't bring your "A" game to the table every time, lets sit down and play some long sessions of a cash game, I could use your money.
Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
avatar Subject :  Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
Date:       October 17, 2009 01:59AM
Logan, I theoretically agree with you, but frankly it does not work in practice. I don't play on the free sites as much anymore, because I'm not good enough to have 2 different A games. If you play your A money site game on a sub site, you will end in the top 20%, but never win. The players will call an all in with 83os and hit a full house. (I was once testing the theory of betting based on not looking at your hole cards and betting as if you had AA. It was a real money tournament. Lots of betting and raising, really big pot. It went to the river, and when I looked at my hole cards, I had 83os. The board was 83x8x, and I won. I was not invited back to that game.)
So, if you're really good, and many of our people are that good, then you can switch hit. Else it was fun, but no money.

Kathleen
Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
avatar Subject :  Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
Date:       October 17, 2009 07:35AM
Another thing to consider is that a subscription site can also teach you how to chang gears or adapt to the event and the players. I have heard many people say that they play each event like it was the main event at the wsop.. which is a huge mistake. You must adapt to the game as well as the players and the risk/reward.
Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
avatar Subject :  Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
Date:       October 17, 2009 08:03AM
Well, I think, if you accept the claim that subscription sites are not offering real gambling, then the games are not real poker, i.e., they are sweepstakes.

Also, to me, It's not so much that the games offered are not real gambling (legally); it's the way that some of the players play the games that is unreal. To use an extreme example, it's somewhat like playing the play money games on a poker site, real or subscription. Based on actual recent experience (lol), you usually have at least one player that raises EVERY (yes, every) hand and caps the betting if re-raised, or goes all-in EVERY (yes, every) time, without any regard to cards, position, chips, etc. Now, in a real poker game these players may be chopped liver, but otherwise they have nothing to lose and play accordingly. Other than hand rankings or trapping a maniac, are you really learning anything of value?

So, how does a player compete successfully in a subscription site environment? As Kathleen points out, will our normal poker A-game cut it (e.g., tight and aggressive), or must we make changes? If so, what changes must we consider?

One must certainly make appropriate changes when going from limit to no-limit, from low stakes to high stakes, from cash games to tournaments, from slow blind structures to fast blind structures, knowing when to switch gears, recognizing player types and styles, etc, etc.

I know that there has been a lot of discussion on poker forums like ours about these differences, scattered around the forums; but I don't recall a published article, book, or e-book that offers a definitive guide to playing subscription sites. Any suggestions on a source?

P.S. Sorry, but this got longer than I intended. cool smiley
P.S.S. Thanks, Doc, for chiming in. smiling smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2009 08:12AM by Axman.
Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
avatar Subject :  Re: Decrease Your Bad Beats
Date:       October 17, 2009 09:16AM
Logan, I don't take these games any less seriously than other games. I'm willing the fold the best hand in order to go deep in and hopefully win a tourney. In a low $$$ freeroll game on a site like SC, where I will probably get paid with a hand like KQ if it hits the flop in the first few hands of a tourney I'll take the chance that I'll be paid on the river. This does not mean I just shove it all in on the flop - it is of course situational. I agree with the doc 100% here, but there are always situations where deviation from the rule is the optimal strategy. An "A" game includes the ability to adapt your game to the situation and to not develop bad habits just because you vary your strategy depending on the buy in, pay out, structure, ring size, etc, etc.

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