I wrote this up as a blog for some of the newer poker players at BSPT and I am too lazy to rewrite it but the hand details are there. I am so undecided on this hand it hurts. Had it went my way, I would be singing a different tune, but I still think I might have taken a gamble I didn't need to. Wouldn't mind a second opinion or 2. I asked my 25-50 PLO friend, he would play it like I did, but I am so pissed at myself.........I did link the dissusion back to here in the SNG thread on a Canadian forum which refrences DK's sit and go strategy and of course mentions him. Here is the hand.

I'll do a little better intro later, but I thought it only fitting my first VIP blog at Big Slick would be about "Big Slick".

It is one of those hands you love and hate. I'll take it all day, but as one of my poker mentor says, "to win a tourney you have to win with AK and beat AK. Last night I played a final table hand that I thought might be fun to break down, because it really defines the whole poker cliche of "it depends".

So here is the set up: 42 entry home game, $30+$5 bounties. Final table with 9 players left and 5 spots paying.

I have about 75k in chips or about 1/4 of the chips in play. My "M" is 25 or well in the green. I am on the button. Player A raises the 1000/2000 blinds from under the gun to 5k. Player B handles her cards a little carelessly and I see she holds an ACE. Player B ponders shoving with about 18k behind after she decides to just call the 5k. 2 other players call the 5k and the highjack, the only player with a stack that concerns me just calls the 5k.

So now we have 28k (blinds fold) in the pot pre-flop. I have AK in position. Do I just call? I don't like that option, there are too many players and hands in the pot. Do I as chip leader fold AK preflop? I can't see that option yet either.

What I do know is this, Player A, I have been playing with for about 2 hours, he is solid and not afraid to 2.5 bet for blinds pre-flop. He is also playing a little passivelly against me as I have recently trapped him in two huge pots to take away his chip lead. He is now average stacked at best. I am not worried about him. Player B is dominated and her stack can't do much damage if she 3 outs me. Players C and D are pretty passive, very likely to fold and neither can damage my stack significantly. Player E, the high jack is a very solid player and has chips.

He also know how to use them, so other than having the big stack on his left, I see no reason he wouldn't reraise the pot pre with a top teir hand. He is also a very strong odds based player.

I make the decision to move all in, putting their tourney life on the line, should they decide to race. I don't mind a call from anybody but the 35k stack. I don't think he will call me as he has the chips to be patient and again, since he understands odds and math, I expected him to raise and not just call if he had a strong hand. I increase my stack by 30% plus just by taking this pot pre.

It quickly folds around to him. He tanks for along time and works it all out. He can also assume while the shorter stacks all have decent holdings, alot of overcards are now in the muck. I have been playing with him since the begining of the game and this is the first time I have moved all in pre. Add to that, I only announce the all in, I don't double hand push to indicate strength (oops). He mutters and mumbles "guess you have to gamble sometimes to win these, I hope you hold AK. I call."
I tell him he pegged it and we table our hands. He holds 66. I am uncomfortable now, as I know alot of my outs are indeed in the muck, but I still hold a premium hand and we are a coin flip. Win this pot, I have half the chips in play and have eliminated one of the stronger players on the table. As it played out, he doubles up.

So should I fold AK? Was this a terrible play? Now I turned over the chip lead to a player who can use them well.
In the end, it is he who eliminates me, 2 spots from the money, after 6 hours of play.

I am 60/40 about how I played this. 60% hates it, but not because I lost with AK. The cards really don't matter and I should know this. Fold AK? In this situation I should have or been satisfied to go into a flop with position.

Before final started, I had planned to use a "non-card reliant SNG strategy". So back to the game. If you have taken the time to read the strategy, you will realize I have no reason to gamble here. I have more than enough chips to just abuse my opponents around the bubble and I should be able to pick that 30% increase with little resistance if I choose my opponents and spots wisely, not so much my cards.

Now, Do I hate the infamous Big Slick race after this hand? Do I find the excuse, "I can't fold there!" or "I had AK"? Of course right after the hand I am frazzled and yes there are alot of situations where I would race with it again. But this shouldn't have been one.

I was one of the stronger players with alot of chips, then I played a Level 2 thinking hand at best.

So should I hate his call? Nah, Much respect. He is getting almost three to 1 on a hand he knows he 50/50 to win. Very ballsy and when the board flopped 10 10x, he had to sweat. If there hadn't been so many players in with hands that where obviously just almost good enough, I would say it was a loose call. He also worked out that I knew that.

That said, at this point, I would have played most pocket pairs to JJ the same way in this spot. Had I double hand pushed or just raised half my stack, he may have backed off. He had witnessed me just call with 10,10 and fold an overpair to him on his set, so he knew alot about how I would play these hands and try to control the pot.

In my opinion he applyed some level 3 thinking to work this out. He knew, I knew his hand wasn't great but that mine was also good but should be no better than a coin flip.

But we where talking AK right? Sort of..........
Bottom line, I had no real excuse not to make the money here, what I was dealt should not mattered much.

Thoughts?

I guess I am too used to the idea of letting the short stacks take each other out to do what you did. Also knowing an A was out and cutting my odds would figure in my decision.
I think I would have called and seen how the action went, or I might have folded, yes really, or 3x BB raised. I would have had to have been there to know which option I would have chosen. Unless I am short stacked, or up against a tiny stack, I don't go all-in on AK, although I may call an all-in with it, depending on the circumstances. Everyone calls AK against a pair 50/50, and that is close, but the pair is always favored. When you knew an A was out, and probably a K, and some of the str8 cards too, that cut your percentage, and with all those people in the pot, it is almost certain one has a pair. Who, and if they will call is the unknown.
Also you say you would have increased your stack by 1/3 if everyone folded, but there was always the potential of having to risk about 1/2 to gain a 1/3 with your action. Risk/reward ratio not one I would like. But then, I guess to quote some old friends "I'm a poker player, not a gambler".

Hey old friend! Great hand to post. It's a classic.

Obviously a great spot to squeeze play raise with all that dead money between the original raiser and you. Some people say it's never a big mistake to push all in with AK. In this case, it's not a huge mistake, and I certainly can see the arguements for doing it, although I think there are other options as well. So what are your choices?

A. Fold - too tight with AK on the button.
B. Call - A little weak, but can't hurt you too bad, and protects your big stack.
C. Raise - Probably the best option, but how much? The purpose of the raise in this instance should be to cut down or eliminate the field, and to get a 'better' hand to fold (such as a small pocket pair), and not so much to build a bigger pot. If this is the goal of the raise, you would think that a bigger raise would be in order but there are reasons listed below as to why I don't favor the all in re-raise here. Depending on the other stacks and the other players tendencies, you could consider a reraise of 3-4x the original raise, so a reraise to 15-20K.



There are three reasons why I might question the all in move here

1. Your large stack and the stage of the tournament. You are the big stack, it's 9 handed and 5 spots pay. The concept is that you want conserve that big stack so that you can use it more effectively nearer the bubble, like when it gets to 6 or 7 handed. As Poker1040 kinda pointed out, adding more chips to your stack isn't worth risking them. Put another way, as the chip leader if you win the hand and add more to your stack you are still the chip leader and can still put anyone in jeapordy at anytime (no big gain), but if you lose the hand, you are no longer the big chip leader/threat and lose a big edge(big loss). You become one of those medium stacks around the bubble that is forced to play tight. Had there been say 20 player left, then I'd lean toward going for it. But with 9 players left, you are very close to that bubble time, where you can pick up a lot of pots easily and build up your stack. It's kinda like racing. You might want to conserve a little gas on the next few laps so that you can go flat out on the final few laps to the finish.

2. The other reason I am not 100% on the all in move here is because in this hand you are on the button. By moving all in, you are letting a potential caller off the hook and giving up your positional advantage. No longer can you pressure them street by street, or out maneuver them with position. Your cards, your chips and your position are your weapons. Why give one of them up if you don't need to?

3. Finally, you have a good hand; one that could dominate a lot of lesser hands. A huge reraise will fold out all the hands that you dominate except AQ probably. The hands that might call your all in are coin flips (pairs) assuming no one slow plaid AA or KK. You don't want to flip coins for all those chips at this stage. But you don't mind playing a pot against a hand you dominate like AJ or KQ.

Like I said before, it's not much of a mistake to go all in with AK anytime, and here it's definetely not a bad option. Poker being so situational though there's rarely a one size fits all solution. I'd say in this situation, 50% of the time reraise 3-4X, 30% of the time reraise all in, and 20% of the time flat call.

All the best Jon,

DK

Yeah DK, that was what I was trying to get at- the downside was much more negative than the upside was positive.Again maybe it is the Phil Hellmuth theory of poker, but with a chip lead, why do I want to put myself in a position where I am not the clear favorite? I can fold, wait for a situation where i am pretty sure I am the heavy favorite, and probably face at least one less opponent, maybe two, if I exit this hand and let the smaller stacks fight it out. This is my thinking on folding.And I meant 3x raise the raise not the BB,as this had been raised aleady. What happens when I ty to play and write at the same time lol. What I don't like about this is that if I have callers and they bet before me, unless I have hit, I've just sacrificed chips I could use better somewhere else. My choices would be call 25% or fold 65%, re raise 10% in this specific situation I guess.

This is awesome feedback as always guys. I like the point about what I had to gain as what I had to lose (a bigger chip lead as opposed to losing the chip lead)

I polled this on a few forums, alot said they would make the flip no questions asked. I am taking your line on this, when you really break it down all the information shows the odds were not in my favor, it wasn't a true flip and it was a risk that had more negative expectations than positive.

I will try to lead some players to the disscusion here, without pissing off any other forums, These are such good replies!

Here is how I used risk/reward in the $750 High Roller Weekly on Spade Club last night. Was running good and was in about 12th place with 30 left. Pays 18. Around 25 or so left, I went into auto fold mode.Why? My goal was to make the money. I folded AJ when there was a raise before me, I limped in the small blind with p2s and when the BB, the ony other player left, raised, instead of auto calling, or pushing, I folded. I had him covered, but I knew I had enough chips to make my goal, if and only if, I did not lose many of them.Once we got to 18, I played my normal game. then again around 12, I shut down again,because the next goal was to make the final table. Did this let peoprle push me around? Yes, but the goal was more important than my ego. Made the final tabe with the shortest stack. Ended up 2nd.
Think Doc posted on this a long time ago-set your goal, achieve it, and set a new one. There is poker strategy and there is tourney strategy. Need to use both in your decisions. What is right in a cash game may not be right in a tourney and vice versa.